Religion reference?

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Religion reference?

Post  VivianH on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 pm

I counted Hemingway using the word "fathom" six times. (so far, pg 1-70) Once on pg 28. Once on pg 30. Three times on pg 31. Once on pg 32. (The sentence he used on pg 32 was "sometimes they were at sixty fathoms" - notice the word sixty?)

fathom = six feet


Pg 58
"he had cut six strips he spread them out on the wood"

Why six?

The discussion about the Christianity reference in class had me thinking. The Biblical Meaning of the number six, from my understanding, that it is almost, for the most part, dealing with the creation of man. I think this number is also used when referring to human labor or secular completeness?

I did some internet searching about the number six:

"Six is the number for man because he was created on the sixth day. It should remind us of our human incompleteness. Man without God will always be incomplete. No matter what we do in our own strength, we will always fall one below the perfect number seven. What God created on the previous days, “And God saw that it was good.” However, when God made man, “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good” (Genesis 1:31). = This could be Hemingway feeling incomplete because he is unable to write his masterpiece. No matter what Hemingway does, he will never be complete.

The sixth commandment calls our attention to the value of the human life that was created on the sixth day. It says, “Do not kill” (Exodus 20:13). = Could this be Hemingway contemplating on the notion of taking his life? Or could this be Hemingway telling the reader that he will be committing a sin, that is taking his own life.

Six is also the number of balance, harmony, cooperation and marriage. Jesus’ first miracle changed six pots of water to wine for the wedding feast (John 2:6). A wedding represents love as does the number six. = Does this mean that Hemingway is wanting to be loved? Or is he thinking about his deceased loved ones?

Why does Hemingway make a Bible reference at all? Is he looking towards God during the last moments of his life before he decides to end it?

Errr this baffles me...

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Numerology (The Study of Numbers)

Post  Admin on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:23 pm

I am very excited that you've chosen to use such a zoomed-in approach to the small details of this story. If there is one thing I've learned from my 19 readings, is that there are definitely some very baffling, yet remarkably knowable, small details. 3, 6, 7, 12, and 40 were all very sacred numbers in Judeo/Christian theology, which is the world view of the writers of the Bible; I've never made this connection with the number 6 before, so I'd like to you keep me up to date on whether or not this lead goes somewhere. Whether or not it does, I can assure you I have some pretty concrete proof that there are some hidden formulas, references, and numbers in this text. I'll post on it later when we've read past them. P.S. I pulled up an electronic copy of the text and did a search for the word fathom... it occurs 10-12 times in the whole text, depending on what root word you search for.

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Re: Religion reference?

Post  Kristine L on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:14 pm

Dang, I really wish I was there that day. While I was reading, I noticed some things that perhaps pertain to the bible as well, like how 85 was his lucky number. I opened up my bible when I got home and read over Psalm 85.

"1 Lord, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob.

2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

3 Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger.

4 Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.

5 Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations?

6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee?

7 Shew us thy mercy, O Lord, and grant us thy salvation.

8 I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

11 Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.

12 Yea, the Lord shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.

13 Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps."

I also decided to look up his name because I thought it might hold some significant meaning, and well, it does.
Santiago is a reference to bible itself. It means Saint James, who was one of the twelve apostles of Jesus.

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The Name Santiago

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:27 pm

Great observation. I have only two leads on that source. #1 is that St. James, the book of the Bible, is attributed to Jesus' brother. The numerous references to brotherhood get me thinking. Along with the fact that the book of James Chapter 1, begins with an interesting explanation of endurance, perseverance, self-doubt, and even uses an ocean analogy.

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Re: Religion reference?

Post  Kristine L on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:42 pm

GOSH
THAT WAS THE WRONG PASSAGE
I meant passage 84.
Woops

Here it is! I think it's rather interesting.

1 How amiable are thy tabernacles, O Lord of hosts!

2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the Lord: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O Lord of hosts, my King, and my God.

4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.

5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.

6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.

7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.

8 O Lord God of hosts, hear my prayer: give ear, O God of Jacob. Selah.

9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.

10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

12 O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.

I'll go ahead and try to summarize that text when I log in again, and perhaps attempt to relate it to Ernest Hemingway. cat

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